Antoine Gigal – Egyptologist

Antoine Gigal (AG): ...commandos, armed commandos attacked twelve high-security jails in Egypt. And those commandos freed prisoners, but very dangerous ones, and giving them guns and then the event started. So, it’s not what we think... a natural movement only. It was very well prepared.

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Because when you read the ancient text, in hieroglyphic ancient Egyptian texts, you see that they are speaking about the god Nu, who is a god of... the first water, the first Earth, etc. The god Nu is like Noah. We know that in all civilizations, you have a kind of same god with the same name everywhere.

Kerry Cassidy (KC): Sure.

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We know that the pyramids and the Sphinx are much older [chuckles] than they say, from many years ago. But what can I say to you about the Sphinx is that [there] existed another Sphinx, just the other side of the Nile, and the feminine one and the masculine one. This is attested in more than thousands of texts, ancient Arabic texts, and this is also one [ed.note: part] of my research.

Start of interview

KC: Hi. I’m Kerry Cassidy from Project Camelot and we are here at Megalithomania, and I’m here with Antoine Gigal [pronounces last name like ‘je jal’].

AG: Gigal. [pronounces it like ‘je gal’]

KC: Gigal. Okay and she is an Egyptologist, and really extraordinary. Doing extraordinary investigations for many, many years on the Giza Plateau and all over Egypt. She lives in Egypt and she looks at it from a completely different point of view than a lot of the investigators out there today, and I’m very happy to be able to talk to her.

AG: Happy to be with you today also.

KC: Thank you. So, what I’d like to talk about, is some of the things that you were covering in your talk earlier, and maybe some of the things that you’re going to talk about today and then let’s just sort of see where it goes.

First of all, because this audience will not know your work necessarily, can you tell us how you got involved in Egyptology?

AG: Yes. It’s a long story. Well... I’m living now for 20 years in Egypt and before, I was at university in France. I’m on my study in Champollion School, National Institute of Language, where I learned hieroglyphy [ed. note: hieroglyphology], Chinese, Sanskrit, all the languages, because it was my passion, from very long time ago. And... well, after that, I went to Egypt, and I discovered my true passion.

KC: Okay.

AG: I had the chance to be able to visit every site of Egypt, but not only the public sites, but the non-open-to-the-public sites. And I have the chance also, to be able to come back to every site each year for twelve years and to take pictures, to see how the things were restored or not, etc.

KC: Okay and...it’s true also that you speak Arabic...

AG: Yes. I speak perfect, fluent Arabic.

KC: Okay and this is a huge advantage, as well as you were able to... Are you able to read the inscriptions on the temples?

AG: Yes. I can read hieroglyphic. It’s to say, ancient Egyptian. I can read ancient Grecian, Greek and I can read Arabic.

KC: Okay. So, this gives you an advantage over many researchers, I would say.

AG: Yes. My research is based not only on physical evidence on the terrain, but also, because I’m able to translate directly from the ancient texts, which I’m reading. Yeah.

KC: Mm-hm. Okay. Is there anything specific that you can tell us because I know that you are also up-to-date on your Facebook page. You were telling us that you’re actually giving news items from inside Egypt.

AG: Yeah.

KC: And... all the time, for maybe quite some time.

AG: Yes.

KC: Maybe a year or more.

AG: Oh... three years now.

KC: Three years. Okay. And for those listening, I think that’s a great thing to reference and to catch up on.

AG: Yes. You can go to my Facebook page, Antoine Gigal. And you will find news of every day in Egypt, in Cairo. And I was very amazed of what I could read about the occidental news, medias, because what I was living in Egypt was totally different. So, a lot of people joined my Facebook page in order to see what was the truth. [laughs]

KC: Yes. I’m sure. Before we go into ancient Egypt, why don’t we talk about the current events...

AG: Yes.

KC: ...because you have an interesting take on what’s going on.

AG: I was very amazed, about what I could see in occidental medias, news about Egypt, because I was living in Egypt and living completely different things. And...

Yes, the events, for example, when it started, the day it started... Something they never said in the occidental medias, is that, in fact, in reality, commandos, armed commandos attacked twelve high-security jails in Egypt and those commandos freed prisoners, but very dangerous ones, and giving them guns, and then the event started. So, it’s not what we think... a natural movement only. It was very well prepared.

And also, it was prepared, because we know today in Egypt, that a book was published one year before telling every event coming, day by day.

KC: Really.

AG: Yes. An Egyptian writer wrote this book. Yeah.

KC: Well, how did this Egyptian writer know what was going on?

AG: [shrugs] This is the question. [laughs] I can’t answer this. Many speculation about that.

KC: Okay.

AG: Because, for example, the commandos went to... they went to free the people inside the prisons, were not exactly Egyptians. So you have maybe many foreigners involved in the story also...

KC: Oh, really?

AG: Yeah. I suspect people coming from Lebanon, from other countries. So...

KC: Hmm.

AG: A lot of things mixed there. Not... It’s not a simple event.

KC: Okay. Yes. Very interesting. As things have moved along since then, we have Zahi Hawass who has resigned, and we’ve got a... I just heard you announce that there was a new Minister of Antiquities. Is that correct?

AG: In fact, Mr. Hawass never resigned, because the day he published that he resigned, he was sacked, in fact.

KC: Ah.

AG: Because the government changed... this day, that day, and the minister changed every ministry and, of course, him also. So, he was sacked, as the other ministries.

KC: Ah.

AG: He never resigned.

KC: Okay. Yes. Okay. I understand. Well, we understand also that there had been a great deal of stealing going on.

AG: Yes.

KC: And a lot of... Zahi Hawass has been accused of turning... allowing these things to happen, turning away, ignoring it, maybe even participating in this.

AG: Well, this is now in the hands of the justice in Egypt. We will see what happens.

KC: Uh-huh.

AG: A lot of fights, a lot of things. We will see. But, I was very concerned by all the looting during the last days, last weeks, because it was not normal that... you are Ministry of Antiquity, and you are not asking to the military to come to protect this sites. That seems very strange, and you have many sites attacked by forty people with guns, etc. and the police was not there, because... Nobody was there, in fact. [chuckles]

KC: Okay. It sounds a lot like what went on in Iraq...

AG: Yeah.

KC: ...after the U.S. invaded.

AG: Yeah. But... This time there was no invasion. [laughs] So, I can’t say the same.

KC: Yeah, obviously. Okay. So, in terms of how you feel about this time in Egypt, do you feel that... hopeful that there will be something positive come along as a result of the revolution that’s happening?

AG: Well, I think, anyway, change is good, anyway. I really think it’s very good. The main thing is, Egypt is seventy-five percent... You have seventy-five percent of young people under thirty years old. And you have a demography, a very fast demography, three percent in three years of increasing of demography. So, you have plenty of young people, also under twenty years old. And they are coming with much illusions and they want to…they think that outside the country, you can win money easy and you can find a job very easy. They don’t know the situation we are facing, all of us in the world. So, I’m afraid of this illusion, because in any government [that] will come to power in September, they will not able to give money and job to everybody. [chuckles]

KC: Uh-huh.

AG: So, that is a risk. And also, the risk is, of course, the religious sectorist... There are many in Egypt, and powerful, very powerful. So, I hope the young and other people will be able to face the situation with wiseness [ed note: wisdom].

KC: Okay. I understand. Now, to move on to your studies and your research, can you tell me what you feel is the direction that you’re going? Like, what you feel that you’re eventually, and you been have revealing, that hasn’t been revealed before, or isn’t known by other people.

AG: Yes. My research is very specific, because mainly my main theory is that Giza Plateau, not only the pyramids on Giza Plateau, but all the Giza Plateau... and for me the Giza Plateau is 80 kilometers long. It’s not only the three pyramids with the Sphinx. Of course, with geological, different geological features, but it’s a plateau made of islands, in fact. Ancient islands. It is exactly what I’m finding with... also with my friends of the Geological Survey of Egypt. And, all that to say that the first pharaohs... but before the first dynasty for me... built all the Giza Plateau, in order to make a kind of shelter under the plateau for all the population and all the knowledge. And not only for Egypt, but maybe for all the planet in that time. But this is, of course, speculation for the moment. But my theory is grounded geologically now.

And with evidence I found in the terrain and also with the ancient texts, because, for example, you have the Abu Hormeis... writings, where you find the evidence of the existence of a pharaoh named Saurid, and this pharaoh Saurid, much before the first dynasty, he prepared the Great Pyramid as an entrance for underground facilities, to put all the knowledge and population, because he knew, 300 years before – that is written in the text – that a big catastrophe will come to Egypt, a big huge flood. So he wanted to save all that knowledge and the population.

And not only in this Abu Hormeis hieroglyphic text. In fact, it is in Hieratic and Coptic writing. But you have plenty of other texts, Arabic texts from the historians. [unclear: Al-Muqtadi], for example, is saying that the high priest with the name of Saïuf was living under the pyramid and that he saw the arriving of the flood. And he made a prayer to his Lord Osiris in order this flood don’t kill the people. So, you have plenty, plenty of evidence of that in the text.

KC: Okay. And... So, that’s very interesting. And you also have demonstrated very clearly how the boats and the water...

AG: Yeah.

KC: ...was all very much a part of Egypt and still is today, that the canals are still being used and the water wheels... In fact, that the Dutch come and study the water wheels. Is that correct?

AG: Yes. That’s correct. You have hundreds of kilometers of canals, of dams, water logs, water facilities, everywhere on the plateau. And still working, which is incredible, because the evidence we have are from 3,500 B.C., but I know that this is only restorations which existed before.

KC: Mm-hm.

AG: And it is still working today. The part of Faiyum depression at 80 kilometers south of Giza, you have all those kilometers, hundreds of kilometers of canals still working. And this represents an amount of stones, much more than to build the three pyramids. [chuckles] So, how did he do that work? This is completely amazing.

Also, the King Louis XIV in France, a long time ago, sent his envoy to see this amazing water work, network in Faiyum, because he wanted to do the same in France.

KC: Uh-huh.

AG: And when this man came back to France, he explained everything and they were not able to do the same, because it’s very complex, very well built and a lot of systems. Also, you have the boat pits you find under every pyramid and... an amazing technology. We are facing, for true, a high-level maritime civilization.

KC: Yes and that’s fascinating, because at this time, of course, it’s hard for people to accept, simply because it’s so dry there, that it’s changed. But most Egyptologists and people that follow the history know that the pyramids were built in a place where there was...

AG: Forest.

KC: ...it was exq... incredible, lush...

AG: Yeah, exactly.

KC: Yeah. Jungle zone.

AG: So, you have to imagine this desert full of forest with water running everywhere.

KC: Yes. Absolutely. Now, when you say that they think that there could have been a repository for knowledge... And also, for safety for the people under the pyramids in... And, obviously, there are most likely lots of different levels going on underneath the pyramids, tunnels of all kinds going all directions. Do you... Would you call this the either... the ‘labyrinth’ or would you call it the ‘hall of records,’ or something else altogether?

AG: This is a very interesting question. [chuckles] Because when you read the ancient texts, in hieroglyphic ancient Egyptian texts, you see that they are speaking about the god Nu, who is a god of... the first water, the first Earth, etc. The god Nu is like Noah. We know that in all civilization, you have a kind of same god with the same name everywhere. And this god Nu in Egypt, he was all the time speaking about Thebes [pronounces it like ‘Tibah’]. And Thebes is today the City of Luxor, the ancient name of Luxor.

KC: Oh. Thebes [pronounces it like ‘Theebs’]. What we would say in English, Thebes.

AG: Yes. You say Thebes like the Greek. Yes. Thebes. But in ancient Egyptian, it’s Thebes [pronounces it like ‘Tibah’].

KC: I see.

AG: And Thebes was an ark at the origins. Every word in Egypt, ancient Egyptian, means other things.

KC: Yes.

AG: Depends of your level of consciousness.

KC: Yes.

AG: So Thebes, in fact, is a rectangular or square ark.

KC: Oh really.

AG: And, the City of Thebes [pronounces it like ‘Teebs’] today was Thebes [pronounces it like ‘Tibah’] before. And you know why? Because the ark arrived at final stage in Luxor.

KC: I see.

AG: So, they gave the name of this city, the name of the ark, Thebes. [chuckles] What I really think, is that the pyramids – when I say ‘the pyramids,’ I mean the Great Pyramid, for example – they are built as a dam, a huge dam. Because you don’t have only four sides, to the Great Pyramid. You have eight sides, because it’s convex. You can see that twice a year with your eye, because it’s very... [makes vertical halving gesture with her right hand]

KC: Uh-huh.

AG: And you have the corners very well grounded with the system. So, this pyramid is able to support incredible strong earthquake and incredible amount of water. So, it is not only a dam [chuckles], of course. It's many other things, because the ancient Egyptian used to make, to build a thing for many different things. That’s very interesting. They were so clever.

KC: Yes. Absolutely. Now, what about the notion of the ritual... There was a whole thing that the adepts inside the pyramid... The young... Well, they’re basically called ‘adepts’ who were studying the knowledge, who had to go through certain initiations. Some of those initiations involved diving down into the water in... and going underneath, inside the pyramid.

AG: Yeah. Well, as for the pyramid, for the moment we don’t have any evidence, physical evidence of that. But I know places in Egypt where you have evidence of that.

KC: Yes.

AG: In the Delta. You have many places like this. It’s very impressive because, in fact, not only they had to go inside the water a long time, but they were facing crocodiles inside. [laughs]

KC: Yes. Yes, that was a part of the ritual.

AG: They needed to feel a big fear in order to throw away, threw away. [chuckles] Yeah.

KC: Yes. Absolutely. Now, do you know anything about Amarna?

AG: Yes, of course.

KC: Okay.

AG: Yeah. Well, I have totally different position on Amarna. So... [laughs]

KC: Okay, that’s fine. Let’s hear it.

AG: It’s not my main topic and... [sighs loudly] Ah! I know that people will not like what I will say. But anyway, for me, it’s my truth, so... [laughs]

KC: Yeah, that’s...

AG: So, I may not be the first. For me, was not the saint that everybody’s depicting. Because we just discovered a text in Luxor, just this past year – I think it’s November, December – where we found that Akhenaten... he put in prison and then decided to kill many persons during his reign.

KC: Oh really.

AG: So he was not the angel that everybody think.

KC: I see.

AG: So, that’s my... [takes a deep breath] what makes me feel that we have a very wrong [chuckles] vision for that. And also, because I can say with the ancient hieroglyphic text, ancient Egyptian text, that Egypt, all the time before Akhenaten, they worshipped only one god, already. But the different gods... the problem is the translation we had, occidentals. ‘Gods’ is ‘neteru’ in ancient Egyptian, and it is not ‘gods’ translation. Neteru, the right translation is ‘energies’, which is totally different.

KC: Okay.

AG: So, when you understand that the so-called gods are not gods but energies, different aspects of the energy of the Oneness.

KC: Okay.

AG: So, you have a cult in Egypt for the Oneness, and not for different gods. Of course, during the Roman time and Grecian time, all that was lost. All this knowledge was lost and they mixed everything and...

KC: That’s right.

AG: But in the ancient time, in the ancient Egyptian time, it was a cult for God, one god only. So, Akhenaten was not putting again something [new]. He decided to cut with tradition of the high priests and this is, of course, as today, they were facing in that time, because Akhenaten for me is very recent. [laughs] I prefer to speak 4,000 Before Christ and his time.

But anyway, in the time of Akhenaten, they were facing a very difficult time, as today in Egypt. I mean... high priests were not like before. They were stealing things, etc, etc. So...

KC: Okay, yes. That’s very interesting. Well, I went to Amarna recently, and when I look at it, it appears that they actually exploded a bomb, because they’ve cleaned the desert floor down to nothing.

AG: I know.

KC: I mean, it’s like dust.

AG: Yeah.

KC: And in order to do that... I mean, it’s not like they just took a few stones away, or a few monuments or whatever. They had to clean it by throwing a bomb into it.

AG: Yes. I know. It’s very strange.

KC: It is quite strange. So, there is a cover up, it seems to me, around Amarna.

AG: You know, when religious topics are involved, you always have something hidden. [chuckles] Amarna is too big a religious topic, because you have Bible groups involved in this research. You have religious... So, you don’t have any neutrality of research, any scientific true research without [the] religious topic inside.

KC: Okay. Now, what I was... I would like to do, because, I wonder if you go, because you said you’d like to go before Akhenaten and... I... because I don’t know your work well enough, but I would say... Do you know about Atlantis and the idea that the Egyptians originally came from Atlantis?

AG: [sighs] Well, once again, I am not... [chuckles] I have not the same [chuckles]... I have a quite different point of view of that.

KC: Okay.

AG: I think it’s for that that the Egyptian of today likes me, because, for me, Atlantis... You have all over the world under the seas, big cities.

KC: Yes.

AG: Big cities everywhere. And I listen every day, ‘Oh, this is Atlantis! This is Atlantis!’ [chuckles] No, they had different names. But for me, Atlantis, this is my theory in one of my next books. Atlantis is coming from the name of ‘Atl’ and Atl is an ancient name, Egyptian name for canal. As you know in my research, all Egypt was covered by canals. You had 42 known areas completely managed by canals, incredible canals and islands. So, for me, Atlantis is Egypt!

KC: [chuckles]

AG: Where you can find the most astonishing building like the Great Pyramid? It’s in Egypt. But, what is important is that Atlantis for me, is Egyptian. But who were the ancient Egyptians? For me, you had 24 tribes in Egypt, very different. I wrote a long article with all the details on my website, GigalResearch.com. [Click on the] English flag then ‘publications,’ you will find it, The first Egyptians, where I wrote all the evidence found by archeologists in the terrain, that you had those 23 different tribes before the... in prehistoric times in Egypt, you had blacks, you had red skin, you had white skin, you had yellow skin, etc. So, for me, Egypt is... all humanity were there, at the beginning.

KC: Okay. Now, how do you think about Sumer? Because there’s information coming out that I’m getting and also hearing, even in this conference, that’s leading me to believe that it’s possible, or it seems to me, that actually Egypt predated Atlant... uh, not Atlantis, but predated Sumer.

AG: A lot.

KC: And a lot of people talk about the Sumerian tablets as being the first information and so on so forth. It doesn’t seem correct to me for some reason.

AG: Yeah. Well... once again, I have a different point of view but, I mean, from the public, general public, because it was a fashion until now to speak about Sumer thanks to the book of Zecharia Sitchin with... I respect very much Zecharia Sitchin, his first book, because it was his first book. After that, he changed a lot of stuff. [His] translation was, for me, not correct after.

KC: Okay.

AG: But, he’s a very respectful researcher anyway. But, the most interesting is that Sumer... the most ancient period of Sumer, Ubaid period, is... you find in Egypt much more older... [chuckles] evidence of civilization in Egypt, because for now, ten years, archeologists are finding incredible stuff about ancient Egyptian, much older than Ubaid period in Sumer.

KC: Okay.

AG: But I think, what it is interesting with Sumer, is that the ancient priests they wrote in the text. It’s very interesting to know something: there was a kind of war between Sumer and Egypt, because the priests always said that Sumer was the place of black magic, and Egypt of white magic. [chuckles]

KC: Uh-huh.

AG: And all what they were doing, was to protect Egypt with spells, with text, etc. with ceremonies, from the priests of Sumer. This is strange, no?

KC: Really, yes. Very interesting. Now, where did... where does that information come from?

AG: That information came from many ancient texts in hieroglyphic.

KC: In hieroglyphs. Okay. Can you cite the text that also, that we have people listening, who want to go find the information.

AG: Yeah. Not today. [laughs]

KC: Okay.

AG: But I will put... I will write articles about that, because it’s very interesting.

KC: Yeah, absolutely. Well, this does change the whole sort of equation. Okay. So, as far as what you have found recently, and your investigations, what exactly are you following at this exact time?

AG: For the moment, we are analyzing things we find at 75 meters up the Plateau of Giza, to show and to have true evidence, that, in a time, the sea was up the Plateau.

KC: Okay. Yes.

AG: This is to show that the flood came, so that the pyramid are pre-flood time.

KC: Pre-flood. Yes. Absolutely. So, how high did the flood waters get on the pyramids? Do you know?

AG: We still don’t know exactly. We know already that it came 75 meters up the Plateau. It’s a base of the Pyramid of Khafra. Khafra is the...

KC: The middle.

AG: And Menkaura also. And... but we have ancient records, English records... that show, that they found marine fish at 23 meters up the Great Pyramid, and salt and a lot... marine salt. Outside. Not on the inside, but outside the pyramid. So...but it’s very strange, every time people find such fantastic evidence, it disappears, the evidence.

KC: Oh really?

AG: Yeah.

KC: Huh. Well, what do you mean? Where does the evidence go?

AG: In the past, many teams discovered... fish... ancient fish... [chuckles] embedded in the stone in the pyramid, but complete fish not from the stone itself, and they were doing analysis and then the proof [she pronounces this like ‘prof’] of this disappeared.

KC: The proof... disappeared.

AG: The proof, yeah.

KC: So, it goes to a lab and then disappears from there.

AG: Yeah.

KC: Interesting. Okay. Now, there must be a tremendous amount of bribery going on, on the Egyptian plateau and... I don’t know.

A lot of countries, also, from what I understand, from other people I’ve talked to, there’s also, for example, the Mossad, Israel, has got an involvement in Egypt for some reason. That they are concerned with certain information that they feel is going to affect the perception of Israel or the Jewish people, etc. And then there are other countries, obviously the United States has been very much involved there and therefore their militaries, as well. Have you kind of bumped up against any of those groups?

AG: You know, in the first time of archeology in Egypt, [chuckles] in the eighteen eighty-something, they found, the English found a kind of observatory in Cairo. This building, inside the building, it was obliged that when you discover any artifact in Egypt, your artifact and your report goes to this foundation. I can say foundation, English foundation. And then, they said to you, ‘Okay. We can spread the news or not.’

KC: Mm-hm.

AG: So, I think every time in the past and now, you have a lot of politics involved in ancient archeology, because if you discover something pre-dating the religious belief of a lot of people, then this is politics. So, well, every country’s involved. Every...

KC: Okay. But what about yourself? Did you... Have you had any... Have they directly affected any of your work?

AG: No. Because, well...for the moment [laughs] But... I try to find the way to be in peace with everybody, but also without any politics. I hate politics.

KC: [chuckles]

AG: I really hate politics. This is very bad for the knowledge and for the science and for everything. So, I try to find everywhere the clever person... able to understand that it is better to do a true, good research with evidence and to spread the information as we can, the more possible.

KC: Okay. Now, what’s your theory about the Sphinx? Do you feel that the Sphinx, for example, is older than the pyramids?

AG: Well, [sighs] it’s possible. Yes, it’s possible. This is...we really don’t know. We know that the pyramids and the Sphinx are much older [chuckles] than they say, from many years ago.

But what I can say to you about the Sphinx, is that there existed another Sphinx, just the other side of the Nile. The feminine one and the masculine one. This is attested in more than thousands of texts, ancient Arabic texts and this is also part of my research. And when I began this research many years ago, I did not know that a geologist in Egypt was doing the same research than me. And another researcher in the world contacted me, saying to me: ‘You know, your research is exactly the same as this geologist you have to meet.’ So, I met this fantastic geologist and we found the same thing, together... So, we decided to make this research together.

KC: Okay.

AG: And we found, in fact, the site of the ancient second Sphinx in front the other one, the other side of the Nile River. It was very difficult to find, because now you have Cairo City, which is mega port... city. But we found the place, the geological place, because there remains nothing of this ancient Sphinx, because it was made of bricks. And the difference is... You had one in bricks, one in stone.

KC: I see.

AG: One masculine, one feminine.

KC: Ah.

AG: And it was destroyed during the big earthquake in the Middle-Age, in Cairo.

KC: Okay. So, when was that?

AG: The discovery?

KC: No. The earthquake.

AG: The earthquake is about 833 A.D.

KC: A.D. Hmm. Okay.

AG: And you had another one after also.

KC: Another earthquake after. I see.

AG: Yeah. Many things disappeared because of the earthquakes, yeah.

KC: Was the earthquake a huge...? It must have been a massive earth quake.

AG: Yes. The Great Pyramid facing blocks disappeared completely.

KC: Oh.

AG: Why? Because they used these facing blocks to rebuild mosques after the earthquakes.

KC: [chuckles] The mosques. Really.

AG: Mosques, yeah.

KC: Yeah. Fascinating. Okay. But, as far as the second Sphinx, is there...? You say there’s information, there’s documentation that indicates that it did exist. Did it... Were there any drawings of it, for example?

AG: How many?

KC: Drawings? Were there any pictures?

AG: Drawing. For the moment, we do not find any drawing, but very accurate descriptions...

KC: Okay.

AG: ...from many different, very serious authors, very well-known Arabic historians, not only from Egypt, but from outside, coming to visit Egypt. And this is very interesting also, because this second Sphinx was in a place... In ancient times, in Cairo, this area name was ‘Babylon.’

KC: Really.

AG: And Babylon is the door of the gods. And it was named like this much before the Babylon you have in Iraq.

KC: Hmmh.

AG: A lot of connections there. [chuckles]

KC: Yeah, I bet. Okay. Where in Cairo now is this area that you’re talking about?

AG: Mmh.

KC: Where?

AG: Where? It’s in ancient Cairo. Very ancient, oldest part of Cairo.

KC: So what is it called? Zamaleck?

AG: No, no. Zamaleck is the modern part. [laughs]

KC: I see. Okay. So, what’s the name of this...?

AG: It’s near Mokattam Mountain, near.

KC: I see. Okay.

AG: At the feet of Mokattam Mountain.

KC: All right. Is there anyone else investigating this at this time?

AG: No. It’s just Dr. Barakat and me.

KC: Okay. And are you continuing to investigate this?

AG: Of course. It’s a long research...

KC: Are you able to do digging at all, or is anyone...?

AG: Well, we went to do digs. We asked the authorities of before, to do digs. But the problem is that this place is in a prohibited area, military area.

KC: Ah.

AG: So very difficult to, even for a professor in Egypt, to get this permit but we hope we will have it. [chuckles]

KC: Okay, and to bring it into present day, the new Minister of Antiquities, do you have good hopes of possible changes to go along with this person?

AG: Well, we... Yeah. We have to know that all of the government names of today will change in September. So it’s a very short time.

KC: So, it’s only for six months or something.

AG: We have to... Yeah. And also, they are facing so many emergencies, like what is... they are facing in Lybia. You have one-million-and-a-half of Egyptians in Lybia they have to save, so it’s a lot of work and all those stuff also.

KC: Oh, right. Okay. Okay. Very interesting. What about Alexandria and the Library of Alexandria.

AG: It’s a pity they burn it...

KC: Mm-hm.

AG: ...because in this library, you had all what we need as information. [chuckles] Yes.

KC: Yes. Okay. But do you subscribe to the belief that perhaps a lot of the manuscripts might have made their way to the Vatican?

AG: We can suppose everything about that. [chuckles] So much mystery, hidden reports everywhere.

KC: But you don’t hear anything. Because you live in Egypt, you must hear all kinds of things.

AG: For me, the most important is the knowledge of the keepers of the tradition, which is the oral tradition. And this oral tradition can’t... die.

KC: Mm-hm.

AG: But this tradition is not open to everybody, of course...

KC: That’s right.

AG: ...because they had to protect it.

And I was very surprised many years before... because during three years, I was going in every temple and then they contacted me, the guardians, because they are in every temple anyway. Not the people with the ticket, but, of course, others. And they were watching me, and they said: "We know that you went always in the "sens" [ed. note: French for direction] of the sun inside the temples. We saw that. We...’ They remembered everything I did in there. They said: "We want to give you our knowledge." I said: "But why?" And they said: "Because we are no more..." This was seven years before now, before today. "Because we are no more allowed to give our knowledge to men. We need a woman." [laughs]

KC: Wonderful. Yes. I’m not surprised. Yeah, I’m not surprised. Well, this is wonderful. Antoine, we have limited time here today.

AG: Yes.

KC: But I would love to interview you again, and we will also put a written translation, so that people who don’t speak French, and your accent is quite thick for those.... I understand you, but I go to Paris and I understand. But I realize that people are having some trouble but at the same time, you have such a fount of knowledge. Is there any secrets that you have been told, that you would want to say here, today, at this time? Or is this something that you are working towards?

AG: Both things. [chuckles] I just would just like to say that, the most important thing in the life today is the joy, to don’t lose the joy, because the joy is very important in order to go further in this very troubled times. If you have the joy, you will be safe.

KC: That’s a beautiful, beautiful thing to say. Absolutely. Okay. I agree with that. Well, Antoine, thank you very much.

AG: Thank you.

KC: Let’s talk again. Bye bye.

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